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Subject Topic: Namaan Took a Bath & was clean. Post Reply Post New Topic
Message posted by One Faith on October 09 2009 at 10:50 am - IP Logged
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One Faith

 
United States
August 25 2008
362 Posts

Naaman received his healing AFTER washing in the Jordan 7 times, just like God said.

2 Kings 5

11But Naaman was furious and went away and said, "Behold, I thought, 'He will surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, and wave his hand over the place and cure the leper.'

This is what marco wants to believe, that God just waves His hand over people and all is well.

 12"Are not Abanah and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean?" So he turned and went away in a rage.

Sounds just like marco.  He doesn't want to just do what God says, he wants to carry on believing in his own false ways.

 13Then his servants came near and spoke to him and said, "My father, had the prophet told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, 'Wash, and be clean'?"

Marco doesn't like words like "do" because it means God expects something out of us.  We MUST DO certain things to receive the benefit, just like the verse below.

 14So he went down and dipped himself seven times in the Jordan, according to the word of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child and he was clean.

Look at that, Naaman finally believed God by DOING what he was told to do and lookie there, he was clean.  Marco makes it sound like he was clean and THEN he washed in the Jordan 7 times.  Marco... cart before the horse yet again.


Message posted by One Faith on October 09 2009 at 3:14 pm - IP Logged
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One Faith

 
United States
August 25 2008
362 Posts

Let's not mix words here, Naaman was CLEANSED of leprosy, there's nothing there to indicate his soul was saved from sin and death.

He was cleansed AFTER washing in the Jordan 7 times.  I thought that was pretty obvious from the scriptures.


Message posted by One Faith on October 09 2009 at 3:35 pm - IP Logged
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One Faith

 
United States
August 25 2008
362 Posts

I would like to make sure I clarify something here.  The Jordan river did not cleanse Naaman.  Dipping 7 times did not cleanse Naaman.  It was Naaman's FAITH in what the man of God told him to DO, and after he DID was he was told to DO, he received what was promised.

You could say he RECEIVED what was promised by obeying the command.  Did Naaman work for his cleansing?  No, he didn't.  He did not merit or earn his cleansing, it was a FREE GIFT from God.

I think, likewise, when we subject ourselves to the Lord in baptism, we too receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), and the FREE GIFT of salvation from God is bestowed to us. 

I like to make a simple analogy with this.  If someone approaches your home with a gift for you, and they knock on your door... did you "work" to get up, answer the door, open the gift and RECEIVE the gift they gave you?  I would hope a rational person could see that it wasn't a "work."  The Lord wants for us to receive Him, and He gave specific instructions on what we need to do in order to obtain the promise.

Notice, Peter's response in Acts 2:38.  It wasn't, "believe and you'll be saved, then go ahead and obey a bunch of stuff."  It was specific what they needed to do in order to receive the Holy Spirit.  Several of them obeyed and it says they were added that day, 3,000 souls.  Added... to the book of life.

Of course the point of contention comes up that it doesn't mention water in that particular verse.  Well, I just try to think logically here and I know that the word doesn't contradict itself and it flows harmoniously with other verses.  I see where Philip preached Jesus to the Eunuch and he was baptized in water.  I also see where Peter commanded Cornelius to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus, the very same verbiage he used when speaking to the Jews in Acts 2:38.  SPIRIT FILLED men practiced and preached these things.  The Spirit led them to do so, I'm totally convinced of this.  Philip only went up to the chariot where the Eunuch was because the Spirit instructed him to go.  Does it make ANY sense for the Spirit to just leave Philip hanging when the Eunuch asks what prevents him from being baptized in water?  It doesn't make any sense to me.  That's all I can say.


Message posted by POC777 on October 09 2009 at 6:51 pm - IP Logged
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POC777

 
United States
January 13 2004
8728 Posts
OK .. so what about Namaan ... did his bath save him?

Salvation in the Old Testament was a mirror image of how will be in the New Testament.

God's grace was the same as proven in Ephesians 2:8-9 and each one was saved by grace through faith.

We could go through a whole list of people who died prior Christ's coming and were saved.

1. Noah and his family(given earlier by a brother or sister) who were saved because they were inside the Ark.

The Ark represented salvation because the LORD God delivered them from His wrath.

2. Abraham, Issac and Jacob were saved and nobody could deny that because its manifested in each of their lives.

Abraham saving faith was proven after Yahweh told him to offer his son as a burnt offering and pa**ed.

3. We don't know about Esau's salvation because if we recall he denied his birth right and after sold it to Jacob for one bowl of lentil soup.

He was of the flesh as Micah tells us "Jacob I loved but Esau I hated". This is a picture of an unbeliever!

4. The "man of God" after being fooled by an old prophet to lodge in. When he went outside was mauled by a lion on the road for disobeying the LORD.

I strongly believe he was saved because he was spreading the Word of God. However, our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ, taught us in Matthew 7, when He returns many who used His name to preach will tell them "I never knew depart from Me depart from me workers of lawlessness"

5. Rahab also was saved NOT because she hid the spies in the roof because she was ALREADY saved and had the fear of the LORD.

James teaches us that faith without works or deeds is dead.

Rahab's faith was ALIVE!

6. And now we come to captain Namman. Elijah told him to dip himself in Jordan River seven times. The number seven means 'complete' 'whole' 'perfect' its God's number. At first he refused to dip himself in Jordan River because the water was dirty. Namman thought it such an idea was foolish but then again the unsaved believe anything from God is foolish.

He wasn't saved! Nothing is recorded in Kings that he repented from his sin, however, later on he worshiped the LORD.

He was a Gentile!

Namman believed the ground near Jordan River was holy so he wanted some dirt. When was about to leave he asked Elijah if he could take some dirt back to his home he got an amount, was joyful and worshiped the LORD.

That could very well mean that Namman showed saving faith because an unbeliever doesn't get on his knees and worship God.

7. Sampson was saved even before he sinned against the LORD. He was caught after the enticement of Debbie, his seven locks were cut off, put in shackles and both of his eyes were burned.

Between two pillars he asked the LORD to strengthen once more, his seven locks grew back and killed thousands.

Sampson showed genuine faith in God!





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If God is higher than angels and angels higher than Man is then God is higher than both angels and Man - Son of the Most High

Message posted by One Faith on October 14 2009 at 9:45 am - IP Logged
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One Faith

 
United States
August 25 2008
362 Posts
Naaman was CLEANSED.  I didn't, and the Word doesn't, say anything about his salvation.  Get it right this time.

Message posted by One Faith on October 14 2009 at 2:34 pm - IP Logged
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One Faith

 
United States
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362 Posts
There is no such thing as a saving work.

Message posted by One Faith on October 14 2009 at 2:59 pm - IP Logged
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One Faith

 
United States
August 25 2008
362 Posts

Faith alone is an anti-Biblical doctrine.  Do a Bible search for that phrase and only the James 2 pa**age shows up.

Faith without works is DEAD.  A dead faith cannot save.  Therefore, faith WITH works is alive and saves.  One cannot work for salvation, but without works it is impossible to have faith.


Message posted by beanero on October 15 2009 at 4:38 am - IP Logged
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beanero

 
United States
January 15 2003
2273 Posts

One faith,

well sort of.

not really.

You need to start with Ephesians 2.  (v5) by grace through faith we are saved EVEN though we were dead in our sins.  (v8) by grace you are saved THROUGH faith.  (v9) NOT of works!

now go to James 2.  (v17) faith without works is dead.  (v24) you see that by works a man is justified and not by faith only.

It is by faith alone a man is saved.

works justifies this faith. 

the words "saved" and "faith" are completely different.

saved - Sozo - to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction one (from injury or peril) to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue to save in the technical biblical sense negatively 1b to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment 1b to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance

justified - Dikaioo - to render righteous or such he ought to be to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

faith saves.  works act as a herald of that salvation.  they shout out "nate is saved!"   If I claim to have faith, but there is no evidence of works ... then you can conclude that something aint right.  Judge a tree by its fruit.  Works do not save.  They testify to salvation.

 

 



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Proverbs 15:18/16:32

Message posted by One Faith on October 15 2009 at 10:03 am - IP Logged
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One Faith

 
United States
August 25 2008
362 Posts

James 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

James 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Again, faith ONLY doesn't save anything.  It is useless.  It is dead.  A dead useless faith cannot save.

Ephesians 2 is simply echoing what I've been saying.  One cannot earn or merit his/her salvation.  This is why I go back to Noah and Naaman.  Did they earn their physical salvation (in Noah's case) or cleansing (Naaman)?  No, they didn't earn it.  They had faith and obeyed God.  They received the free gift which God had bestowed on them.


Message posted by One Faith on October 15 2009 at 11:05 am - IP Logged
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One Faith

 
United States
August 25 2008
362 Posts

Marco, you can write all the paragraphs in the world and you still won't prove that your dead useless faith can save.  Type until your fingers fall off and it will still be a false doctrine.


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