Quote: Originally posted by 14400 on November 03 2009

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Quote: Originally posted by oftheFather7 on November 03 2009For example, Jesus explained the literal understanding of figurative parables, and that is truth.

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But your figurative denotes you figuring out anything that tickles your fancy according to the flesh.

When your bowels move, is that your heart going into the draught?

---

this is totally false and contradicts Christ's doctrine
as stated:

Mt 13:34
    All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mr 4:34
    But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone *, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Ps 78:2
    I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Ps 49:4
    I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.


WITHOUT A PARABLE SPAKE HE NOT>>>>>>

so how is it that Christ spake in a parable, but then, spake literally to explain the parable???? HE DIDN'T! CHRIST IS STILL SPEAKING IN PARABLE, BECAUSE CHRIST IS SPEAKING WITHOUT A PARABLE SPAKE HE NOT.

ALMOST every word of the Bible is parabolic, and there is no way you can harmonize what you stated with the verses that are posted as proofs.

Heb 5:12
    For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

peace

---

Quote: Originally posted by oftheFather7 on November 05 2009

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Quote: Originally posted by 14400 on November 03 2009

Quote: Originally posted by oftheFather7 on November 03 2009For example, Jesus explained the literal understanding of figurative parables, and that is truth.

---

But your figurative denotes you figuring out anything that tickles your fancy according to the flesh.

When your bowels move, is that your heart going into the draught?

---

this is totally false and contradicts Christ's doctrine
as stated:

Mt 13:34
    All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mr 4:34
    But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone *, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Ps 78:2
    I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Ps 49:4
    I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.


WITHOUT A PARABLE SPAKE HE NOT>>>>>>

so how is it that Christ spake in a parable, but then, spake literally to explain the parable???? HE DIDN'T! CHRIST IS STILL SPEAKING IN PARABLE, BECAUSE CHRIST IS SPEAKING WITHOUT A PARABLE SPAKE HE NOT.

ALMOST every word of the Bible is parabolic, and there is no way you can harmonize what you stated with the verses that are posted as proofs.

Heb 5:12
    For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

peace

---

You forgot to post the rest of the Scripture for understanding of what you said -


Matthew 13

[34] All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

[36] Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, DECLARE UNTO US THE PARABLE OF THE TARES OF THE FIELD.


Result of search for "DECLARE":

5419. phrazo frad'-zo probably akin to 5420 through the idea of DEFINING; to INDICATE by word or act, i.e. specially, TO EXPOUND:-- declare.


DEFINE [di-fahyn] –verb (used with object)

1.     to state or set forth the meaning of a word, phrase, etc.

2.     to explain or identify the nature or essential qualities of; describe.

3.     to fix or lay down definitely; specify distinctly.

4.     to make clear the outline or form of.

5.    to state the precise meaning of.

6.    to EXPLAIN.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/define


EXPLAIN [ik-spleyn] –verb (used with object)

1.     to make plain or clear; render understandable or intelligible: to explain an obscure point.

2.     to make known in detail.

3.     to a**ign a meaning to; INTERPRET.

4.     to make clear the cause or reason of.

5.    to make the meaning of something clear or understandable.

6.    to throw light on what before was dark and obscure, usually by illustration and commentary and sometimes by elaborate explanation.

7.    to give the meaning of something by translation.

8.    to make plain or comprehensible.

9.    to reveal the underlying meaning of something by the application of knowledge or insight.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/explain


INDICATE [in-di-keyt] –verb (used with object), -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing.

1.     evidence; SHOW.

2.     to point out or point to; direct attention to.

3.     TO MAKE KNOWN.

4.     to point out.

5.     TO REVEAL.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indicate


EXPOUND [ik-spound] –verb (used with object)

1.     to set forth or state in detail.

2.     to EXPLAIN; interpret.

3.    to CLARIFY; DECIPHER.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/expound


DECIPHER [di-sahy-fer] –verb (used with object)

1.     to make out the meaning of.

2.     to discover the meaning of anything obscure or difficult to understand.

3.     to interpret, as something written in cipher.

4.     TO CONVERT FROM A CODE OR CIPHER TO PLAIN TEXT.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/DECIPHER



>>>>14400 responds per above:

You leave the Bible to the word of man to define the WORD of God? When in fact the Bible teaches us to search the scriptures to see if a thing is so, and not to Webster, or Strong, or http dictionary...right?


[37] He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

So, Jesus doesn't literally sow the good seed of the Word by teaching and preaching?

>>>>14400 responds to the above;

Who is Jesus but the word of God right? And still, Christ spake in a parable, this said in PSALMS 78!

So does the Word teach as a PARABLE?...Yes! In this way many are blinded and deaf as it came upon the "TYPE" as the people Israel!
The precept proves that they were BLINDED by the Parable, in that they could not understand the WORD SPIRITUALLY, that is why they observed the LAW as in the letter, and did not understand that the Law spoke of CHRIST!

[38] The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

So, God's children are not of the kingdom of God?

>>>>>14400 responds to the above;

Sure God's children are of the Kingdom...but who are they? Only God can know the hearts and minds of men, man can't, therefore no one really knows who is of the kingdom of heaven.

Beside the fact that God must have placed the others in satans hands unless you profess Satan to be greater than God in that Satan has more power to take from God!

Parabolic....

[39] The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

So, the devil is not real and did not sow bad doctrine and lies? And so, the angels are not reapers?

>>>>14400 responds to the above;

Where in anything at any time have I ever guided one into such a belief as you stated above?

Bible master has the feature that allows you to view every single post any user ever made, and as I have done, so too I urge you! Look, and see where the words I use ever remotely lend proof to your allegation above. I do not speak as a double minded man.

in fact, Satan comes as an ANGEL OF LIGHT and his ministers as MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS as said here:

2Corinthians 11:14-15
   14.) And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15.) Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Satan is worshipped as CHRIST in that the false gospel is preached and taught as TRUTH by his MINISTERS as MINISTERS of RIGHTEOUSNESS...and that righteousness is the likeness of the WORD, proving the false gospel preached and taught as truth...a delusion.

This is the bad seed.



[40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

So the wicked, in the end of the world, will not be literally turned into the lake of fire?

>>>>14400 responds to the above;

Yes, but not as in your understanding as "ALIVE IN ETERNAL TORTURE", but in that the wicked are dead in the grave, without eternal life...simply dead, cease to exist, never to raise again...AND THEN the world and the heavens are consumed in literal "FIRE" whereas Satan and the fallen are destroyed once and for all, to put death under Christ's feet.

For to Live in eternal torture contradicts the meaning of death...to die without life, as God calls it, "PERPETUAL SLEEP".

[41] The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

So, Jesus will not literally send forth His angels to cast the wicked into the lake of fire?

>>>>14400 responds to the above;

Look, any who are save are angels..angels also means messengers, and saints. It is said that "WE" (as in the saved) will judge the earth...

1Co 6:2
    Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

This is because that Christ marries his bride, the TRUE CHURCH, all those who are saved are the bride, and when the bride and groom marry, they TWAIN BECOME ONE FLESH" or come into unity as one. Therefore if Christ judges the world in the end, then so too his bride as they twain are one.



[42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[43] Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

So, the righteous will not literally be with the Father in the kingdom at the end?

>>>>14400 responds to the above;

First re-read verse 43 as you posted above..."HE WHO HATH EARS TO HEAR"... that is INCLINE YOUR EAR UNTO THE PARABLE! PSALM 78!

Of course the RIGHTEOUS will literally be with the Father in the Kingdom at the end....BUT WHO ARE THE RIGHTEOUS??? that is the point, for many say they are saved, but the Bible teaches that only GOD knows the hearts and minds of men.... So HOW CAN YOU KNOW?

Also, what is the lake of fire? HELL? what and where is HELL? how can you know this if you don't understand the parable?

yea, though I walk through the VALLEY OF THE SHADOW OF DEATH.....

Shadow of death is how God describes this world! LOOK IT UP! Shadow is not the actual thin but the shadow cast from the actual thing...a thing to come, so this world is HELL to come, in that it will be destroyed with the heavens in fire in the end.

Parabolic....

---

Quote: Originally posted by Bible-Bible on November 10 2009

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Again, why even?

---

Quote: Originally posted by 14400 on November 09 2009

---

Quote: Originally posted by oftheFather7 on November 05 2009

Quote: Originally posted by 14400 on November 03 2009

Quote: Originally posted by oftheFather7 on November 03 2009For example, Jesus explained the literal understanding of figurative parables, and that is truth.But your figurative denotes you figuring out anything that tickles your fancy according to the flesh.

---

When your bowels move, is that your heart going into the draught?

---

this is totally false and contradicts Christ's doctrine
as stated:

Mt 13:34
    All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mr 4:34
    But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone *, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Ps 78:2
    I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Ps 49:4
    I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.


WITHOUT A PARABLE SPAKE HE NOT>>>>>>

so how is it that Christ spake in a parable, but then, spake literally to explain the parable???? HE DIDN'T! CHRIST IS STILL SPEAKING IN PARABLE, BECAUSE CHRIST IS SPEAKING WITHOUT A PARABLE SPAKE HE NOT.

ALMOST every word of the Bible is parabolic, and there is no way you can harmonize what you stated with the verses that are posted as proofs.

Heb 5:12
    For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

peace

---

You forgot to post the rest of the Scripture for understanding of what you said -


Matthew 13

[34] All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

[36] Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, DECLARE UNTO US THE PARABLE OF THE TARES OF THE FIELD.


Result of search for "DECLARE":

5419. phrazo frad'-zo probably akin to 5420 through the idea of DEFINING; to INDICATE by word or act, i.e. specially, TO EXPOUND:-- declare.


DEFINE [di-fahyn] –verb (used with object)

1.     to state or set forth the meaning of a word, phrase, etc.

2.     to explain or identify the nature or essential qualities of; describe.

3.     to fix or lay down definitely; specify distinctly.

4.     to make clear the outline or form of.

5.    to state the precise meaning of.

6.    to EXPLAIN.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/define


EXPLAIN [ik-spleyn] –verb (used with object)

1.     to make plain or clear; render understandable or intelligible: to explain an obscure point.

2.     to make known in detail.

3.     to a**ign a meaning to; INTERPRET.

4.     to make clear the cause or reason of.

5.    to make the meaning of something clear or understandable.

6.    to throw light on what before was dark and obscure, usually by illustration and commentary and sometimes by elaborate explanation.

7.    to give the meaning of something by translation.

8.    to make plain or comprehensible.

9.    to reveal the underlying meaning of something by the application of knowledge or insight.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/explain


INDICATE [in-di-keyt] –verb (used with object), -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing.

1.     evidence; SHOW.

2.     to point out or point to; direct attention to.

3.     TO MAKE KNOWN.

4.     to point out.

5.     TO REVEAL.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indicate


EXPOUND [ik-spound] –verb (used with object)

1.     to set forth or state in detail.

2.     to EXPLAIN; interpret.

3.    to CLARIFY; DECIPHER.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/expound


DECIPHER [di-sahy-fer] –verb (used with object)

1.     to make out the meaning of.

2.     to discover the meaning of anything obscure or difficult to understand.

3.     to interpret, as something written in cipher.

4.     TO CONVERT FROM A CODE OR CIPHER TO PLAIN TEXT.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/DECIPHER



>>>>14400 responds per above:

You leave the Bible to the word of man to define the WORD of God? When in fact the Bible teaches us to search the scriptures to see if a thing is so, and not to Webster, or Strong, or http dictionary...right?


[37] He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

So, Jesus doesn't literally sow the good seed of the Word by teaching and preaching?

>>>>14400 responds to the above;

Who is Jesus but the word of God right? And still, Christ spake in a parable, this said in PSALMS 78!

So does the Word teach as a PARABLE?...Yes! In this way many are blinded and deaf as it came upon the "TYPE" as the people Israel!
The precept proves that they were BLINDED by the Parable, in that they could not understand the WORD SPIRITUALLY, that is why they observed the LAW as in the letter, and did not understand that the Law spoke of CHRIST!

[38] The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

So, God's children are not of the kingdom of God?

>>>>>14400 responds to the above;

Sure God's children are of the Kingdom...but who are they? Only God can know the hearts and minds of men, man can't, therefore no one really knows who is of the kingdom of heaven.

Beside the fact that God must have placed the others in satans hands unless you profess Satan to be greater than God in that Satan has more power to take from God!

Parabolic....

[39] The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

So, the devil is not real and did not sow bad doctrine and lies? And so, the angels are not reapers?

>>>>14400 responds to the above;

Where in anything at any time have I ever guided one into such a belief as you stated above?

Bible master has the feature that allows you to view every single post any user ever made, and as I have done, so too I urge you! Look, and see where the words I use ever remotely lend proof to your allegation above. I do not speak as a double minded man.

in fact, Satan comes as an ANGEL OF LIGHT and his ministers as MINISTERS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS as said here:

2Corinthians 11:14-15
   14.) And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15.) Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Satan is worshipped as CHRIST in that the false gospel is preached and taught as TRUTH by his MINISTERS as MINISTERS of RIGHTEOUSNESS...and that righteousness is the likeness of the WORD, proving the false gospel preached and taught as truth...a delusion.

This is the bad seed.



[40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

So the wicked, in the end of the world, will not be literally turned into the lake of fire?

>>>>14400 responds to the above;

Yes, but not as in your understanding as "ALIVE IN ETERNAL TORTURE", but in that the wicked are dead in the grave, without eternal life...simply dead, cease to exist, never to raise again...AND THEN the world and the heavens are consumed in literal "FIRE" whereas Satan and the fallen are destroyed once and for all, to put death under Christ's feet.

For to Live in eternal torture contradicts the meaning of death...to die without life, as God calls it, "PERPETUAL SLEEP".

[41] The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

So, Jesus will not literally send forth His angels to cast the wicked into the lake of fire?

>>>>14400 responds to the above;

Look, any who are save are angels..angels also means messengers, and saints. It is said that "WE" (as in the saved) will judge the earth...

1Co 6:2
    Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

This is because that Christ marries his bride, the TRUE CHURCH, all those who are saved are the bride, and when the bride and groom marry, they TWAIN BECOME ONE FLESH" or come into unity as one. Therefore if Christ judges the world in the end, then so too his bride as they twain are one.



[42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

[43] Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

So, the righteous will not literally be with the Father in the kingdom at the end?

>>>>14400 responds to the above;

First re-read verse 43 as you posted above..."HE WHO HATH EARS TO HEAR"... that is INCLINE YOUR EAR UNTO THE PARABLE! PSALM 78!

Of course the RIGHTEOUS will literally be with the Father in the Kingdom at the end....BUT WHO ARE THE RIGHTEOUS??? that is the point, for many say they are saved, but the Bible teaches that only GOD knows the hearts and minds of men.... So HOW CAN YOU KNOW?

Also, what is the lake of fire? HELL? what and where is HELL? how can you know this if you don't understand the parable?

yea, though I walk through the VALLEY OF THE SHADOW OF DEATH.....

Shadow of death is how God describes this world! LOOK IT UP! Shadow is not the actual thin but the shadow cast from the actual thing...a thing to come, so this world is HELL to come, in that it will be destroyed with the heavens in fire in the end.

Parabolic....

---

Look, however you want to understand it, it's all good, for even in contention we do the will of God. But no matter how hard you try to reason that Christ speaks plainly and not in a parable, well, that just proves that you need to study more, for the precept is there, and on many occasions I have posted the proofs to guide one into the WORD to prove these things for themselves.

Now, As I tried to reason with many out of the scriptures, I often tell them...DON'T believe me, believe the Bible and no man. Search the scriptures to see if the thing is so.

Christ spake in a parable and without a parable spake he not.

Read Galatians 4:24...a couple of verses before and after...then reason with yourself, for ALLEGORY is the word PARABLE....PROVERB is the word PARABLE. DARK SAYING is the word PARABLE.

Then read 1Corinthians 10:4 and many other places where the SPIRITUAL TRUTH is expounded plainly.

peace
    

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John 16:24
Hitherto^{2193, 737} have ye⁽³⁷⁵⁶⁾ asked¹⁵⁴ nothing³⁷⁶² in¹⁷²² my³⁴⁵⁰ name:³⁶⁸⁶

ask,¹⁵⁴ and²⁵³² ye shall receive,²⁹⁸³
that²⁴⁴³ your⁵²¹⁶ joy⁵⁴⁷⁹ may be⁵⁶⁰⁰ full.⁴¹³⁷ 

John 16:25
These things⁵⁰²³ have I spoken²⁹⁸⁰ unto you⁵²¹³ in¹⁷²² proverbs:³⁹⁴²
but²³⁵ the time⁵⁶¹⁰ cometh,²⁰⁶⁴
when³⁷⁵³ I shall no³⁷⁵⁶ more²⁰⁸⁹ speak²⁹⁸⁰ unto you⁵²¹³ in¹⁷²² proverbs,³⁹⁴²
but²³⁵ I shall shew³¹² you⁵²¹³ plainly³⁹⁵⁴ of ⁴⁰¹² the³⁵⁸⁸ Father.³⁹⁶²